US Wrote the Book
I did not write the following, but found it on the internet, semi-anonymously. I think it puts the point very well regarding prisoner abuse, torture, and my patriotic perspective on this.
To understand, one has to realize that all Americans have reason to be patriotic, have traditions of American excellence to call on...
Torture destroys trust.
What do people do when they trust you? They tell you things.
A brother just may turn in a brother if he thinks he'll save his brother's life and the lives of others. But if that brother thinks your going to torture his kin... how can he? Why should he? He should just leave it for evil to battle evil in that case.
Torture is a way of stopping information, not obtaining it.
It's shocking to me that conservatives, with clear understanding of "great men" and the importance of a great reputation, don't care what reputation America earns. I'm not talking about worrying what people think of us... I'm talking about worrying about what reputation America deserves.
Conservatives often miss the point of liberal criticisms of America. Most American liberals DO think that America has always had a position of moral superiority, preaching freedom, keeping to the ideals of democracy as well as those of civil liberty. Liberals are holding America to a high standard because they can, because America has so often met that high standard. To point out the mistakes and violations of those standards are one way of keeping to them in the future. For such a progressive, such as myself in this case, who has a great sense of patriotism and respect for what is great about America, what is unique and great, the question of how we treat our enemy prisoners is a vital patriotic and traditional issue.
To understand, one has to realize that all Americans have reason to be patriotic, have traditions of American excellence to call on...
we are not supposed to take our opinions on the rights of man from European Courts or theological speculations. We wrote the book on rights. The torture memos of which you speak are disgusting, (Yes I have read them) and clearly outside the tenor of American thought. Lay that aside, since Washington accepted the surrender of the Hessians at Trenton the entire world has known that American soldiers treat prisoners with dignity and time after time that has saved American prioner's lives. Al Gonzales was an integral part of a criminal conspiracy to deny that protection to future generations of Americans and because of that participation deserves contempt.
Torture destroys trust.
What do people do when they trust you? They tell you things.
A brother just may turn in a brother if he thinks he'll save his brother's life and the lives of others. But if that brother thinks your going to torture his kin... how can he? Why should he? He should just leave it for evil to battle evil in that case.
Torture is a way of stopping information, not obtaining it.
It's shocking to me that conservatives, with clear understanding of "great men" and the importance of a great reputation, don't care what reputation America earns. I'm not talking about worrying what people think of us... I'm talking about worrying about what reputation America deserves.
Conservatives often miss the point of liberal criticisms of America. Most American liberals DO think that America has always had a position of moral superiority, preaching freedom, keeping to the ideals of democracy as well as those of civil liberty. Liberals are holding America to a high standard because they can, because America has so often met that high standard. To point out the mistakes and violations of those standards are one way of keeping to them in the future. For such a progressive, such as myself in this case, who has a great sense of patriotism and respect for what is great about America, what is unique and great, the question of how we treat our enemy prisoners is a vital patriotic and traditional issue.
posted by Pyrrho | 3:59 PM
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